Kathy reviewed Single
on Jun 03, 2006 06:02 pm
There's also, I think, something to be said in the hidden qualities of the titles. Take 'An Excess of Phlegm' in which I think there are a couple meanings related to not only the chapter, but to Ginny and the flowery scent. 'Phlegm' is a direct reference to 'Fleur' in canon, by Ginny, and 'Fleur' is French for 'flower', so then the chapter title would thus be 'An Excess of Flowers'. Not only does that refer to Ginny, who is later associated with 'flowers' (or a 'flowery' scent) but also the vase of flowers used to 'disguise' the gunpowder smell with its 'perfume'. I also think that Fleur represents, in some way, true love in that she won't leave Bill, so the original title could also mean 'An Excess of Love' which there seems to be a lot of in the entire book.
Vaudree reviewed Single
on Jun 02, 2006 06:26 am
Muggle suggested that if we are going to discuss your article that we should invite you along to participate. The only warning I have is that I did treat your editorial as a editorial before she made this suggestion and have not got around to saying what I liked about it yet.
The other warning is that I am easily intoxicated by trace amounts of air freshioner so do have some experience into what to look for in Harry.
Here it is:
on May 31, 2006 11:08 pm
May I just say, that I am amazed by the amount of contemplation, time and dedication you obviously put into this. I have immense respect for you. That said- grading reviews? Come on. I know people can get ignorant and cruel, but that's no reason to indulge their nonsense.
Now- I will say that a lot of the evidence here is thought provoking, if not convincing, also, a lot is not. But that is not why I am yet to be sold on this theory. The reason is, we are about to go into book 7, the book which will end the series, which will see the final battle. This is a very very important time. I think JKR has been trying to show us all along, the power and the strength of the Trio's friendship. She said herself that they are stronger together than they are apart. Every time Harry finds himself in a tight situation (going after the PS, fighting at the department of mysteries, etc.), his two best mates are by his side or at least helping him in some pivotal way and I don't think this is any coincidence.
Now Harry could easily have told them (as he told Ginny) that he did not want them in harms way and that they should distance themselves from him. But he didn't, they are coming with him! That said, I cannot accept that at this very crucial time, when he will be faced with the most important battle of his life, that JKR would create such a chasm between him and Hermione (as the love potion theory is sure to do).
Don't get me wrong, a lot of what you have presented here (and you have presented a lot!) makes a lot of sense and is very plausible, but the fact is this would kill, absolutely kill Harry and Hermione's friendship and every bone in my body knows they'll be standing beside him when he kills LV. Then he's going to run back into Ginny's arms and continue their unbelievable, horribly written relationship.
Marcus A. reviewed Single
on May 21, 2006 10:41 am
You forget that Hermione is the brightest witch of her age, she can perfectly brew Polyjuice potion in 2nd year, but not a perfect love potion in the 6th? And has to resort to using the Twins Love potions.
That turd don't float!
on May 06, 2006 04:29 pm
Wow that was long. But i loved the explanation. you dont know how upse i was because of H/G. it was wounderful
on Mar 25, 2006 03:02 pm
I think I love you.
Antosha reviewed Single
on Mar 14, 2006 07:09 am
This essay didn't work for me at all--it was well written, but the basic thesis failed on several levels. In order for it to be true, we'd have to believe that Harry hadn't taken any interest in Ginny at all before HBP, we'd have to believe that Hermione was dosing Harry daily with Amortensia (Dumbledore affirms that this is necessary for such a potion to work when he's talking about Merope Gaunt Riddle) and we'd have to believe that Ginny really only went out with Michael and Dean in order to make Harry jealous, in spite of the fact that her behavior never fits that mold.
I don't buy any of those premises--not even the one that Harry showed no interest in Ginny before he showed up at the Burrow.
Occam's razor tells me that's not the most probable theory to fit the given facts.
Author's Response: I'm glad to see everyone's responses to this theory. However, I seriously think that Occam's Razor is almost always badly misused when it comes to JKR's work for the very simple reason that OR was never intended to be used in order to help us understand mystery writing (and we now know from JKR's own lips that she's perfectly well aware she's writing in that genre.) It simply doesn't work to use the simplest possible solution in solving the mysteries inherent in a mystery novel-- they're written in direct *opposition* to an Occam's Razor solution. I like to compare the mystery genre to a puzzle that we gradually fit together, and this is especially true for series novels. Each new piece of information provides us with additional solutions for the puzzle, and the fun is in fitting them together in several possible combinations. However, it ISN'T very productive to whip out a razor and slash the puzzle up into little shreds, proclaiming that it's now "solved." Wasn't that the simplest solution? Well, yes, in a way it was,and now we don't have to try to figure out that puzzle anymore, but the puzzle itself hasn't exactly been solved. So the use of an Occam's Razor-style solution for this entire genre of writing is fatally flawed, I'm afraid.
praetorian reviewed Single
on Jan 16, 2006 12:16 am
wow. that was a really good theory. well thought out and explained with plausible evidence. it would make book 6 look like a cliched teenage romance novel if this theory(or most of it) doesn't become canon in book 7.
Slayer reviewed Single
on Jan 12, 2006 10:33 am
That was the most interesting theory I have ever read. I'm not sure I'm ready to buy your theory, but you sure shook my confidence in the canon. I had almost given up, but what you say makes sense. I want to believe it. THat probably means in a few hours I will. Delusional to the end!
Sanne reviewed Fourth
on Jan 11, 2006 07:36 pm
BRILLIANT! I just spent an hour reading and rereading the essay, et al., and though I'm not sure this is the route JK Rowling will take, she ought to! H/G was otherwise inexplicable in the books...! I know you two aren't pushing H/Hr as I am, but even if Harry and Hermione are just friends and Harry ends up falling for Luna, for instance, I'd be happy just to have an explanation for the HP Lovefest debacle.
Joseph Paul reviewed Fourth
on Dec 09, 2005 08:21 pm
Yes, Creamtea's establishment of Hermione's motivation was really well done. It is only that JK Rowling never introduced us to a theory of combo-dosage before, so I guess the 'technicalities' of it will be difficult to tackle. What we all know is that Creamtea, through her series of essays, showed canonical evidence (hard for us, even for H/G shippers, not to consider) supporting the LP Theory. The evidences that Creamtea showed could have been EASILY avoided by JK Rowling even if she was the least bit careful, thus the LP Theory would not have come to life and making Harry and Ginny's relationship (people who are ideal and worthy of each other) look a lot better. Just to tell you, I was a H/G shipper since Book2 and all that changed after reading the way Harry and Ginny's relationship was written with all that monster-clawing descriptions, etc. and worse, at a time when the theme of love potions was in full-force. I strongly believe that JKR could have written better romance than that if she wanted to do so. She wrote Harry/Cho, a ship that she intended to sink, really well (to a point that I even liked the couple) so I expected a lot better from H/G, which of course, for a lot of us, did not get.
creamtea reviewed Fourth
on Dec 08, 2005 10:45 pm
Thank you Joseph Paul. Very true about the comfort thing not necesarilly equaling romantic love (or indeed, any other type of love). I get a great deal of comfort from a particular pair of slippers - but I'm not going to marry them. In any case the main thrust of the essay was about Hermione's motivation - and I am very happy with that. The reason I dragged in the Draught of Peace (I actually just tacked that section on the end) was because Harry’s crash out That Night fits so beautifully with the in-depth description of the DoP which JKR chooses to give us. IMO she wouldn't give that factor to us if it wasn't coming up somewhere, and that's where I think it came up. Plus, for me, it tied the Vase of Flowers and specifically ‘the flowery smell’ tightly into events – tied in by an unwitting combined usage in the same time-frame on the same person. Flowery smell = ‘love’ = Ginny, all messed up together. Exactly how this stuff works we do not know – we aren’t exactly given a chemistry lesson on it in the books. I just see a pattern of cause and effect. I’m really not that bothered/ bogged down by the chemical mechanics of how the potion(s) kicked in as JKR isn’t bothered either. She doesn’t bother to tell us how the LPs actually work even when she gives us absolute incidences of them being used. She just concentrates (in the Merope and Romilda cases) on general cause (substance given) and then shows you the physical, psychological and narrative effects of the particular potions used there. Those last aspects are what interest her. Well, with Harry we’ve seen the physical effect, if I’m right I expect Book 7 to reveal the psychological and narrative consequences.
Joseph Paul reviewed Fourth
on Dec 08, 2005 05:36 am
Thanks for your reply Creamtea! However, it is still the flowery scent from the Burrow that Harry smells in the Amortentia, not anything about the Puking Pastille. I feel that the probable explanation connecting the Puking Pastille to the Flowers (i.e. Draught of Peace) to Ginny to the Amortentia will be very complicated. I see what you are trying to get to, but I think that the combo-dosage of LP+Draught of Peace is too complex in a way that it will take JK Rowling quite a number of pages just to explain that, especially to the people who did not read your essays (who will be in for a shock if this happens). There is a saying that the simplest solution to a problem is usually (though I would admit not always) the right one. I do not think that we should be bothered much by Ginny being Harry's greatest source of comfort in Book 6. If I remember Book 5 correctly, Luna was a source of comfort (probably at that time the greatest) for Harry after Sirius died, and yet he does not 'love' (allow me to use the 'L' word loosely) Luna in the same way he felt for Cho and especially the one he felt for Ginny (which in the theory was effected by Hermione's dosing). It does not always mean that if that person is your greatest source of comfort, that girl/guy is your true love.
creamtea reviewed Fourth
on Dec 07, 2005 10:55 pm
Just looked at my reply to Joseph Paul: and nope, I still haven’t explained it to my satisfaction. So, if you read the below and add the following … in short, it’s this: Harry was being chemically pushed to fancy Ginny That Night, whilst also eased and soothed in an independent action. I think that the two effects mingled so that not only does he relate Ginny with lust, but also with comfort, which is now associated with ‘a flowery smell at the Burrow’. Ginny, lust, comfort and the flowery smell, are now all part and parcel.
creamtea reviewed Fourth
on Dec 07, 2005 10:33 pm
Thank you JOSEPH PAUL, (see I CAN play nice - with other nice children. You want me to be nice to you, be nice to me, it's a simple enough equation.) Ahem, anyway. Your point re the Draught of Peace and the Vase of Flowers and the Love Potion. What I was hoping to convey (obviously I didn't do very well) was that it's possible that TWO potions - put there by potentialy two separate people, operating off completely different motivations, and each unknown to the other - could have hit Harry with a double whammy: bodged-up Love Potion (the Pastille, bodged by lack of practice: Hermione) and bodged-up Draught (Molly's cack-handed effort). I think that the Vase Of Flowers DoP does not contradict the LP connection, as Harry was being affected all night by LP, simultaneously as by the Draught. I think the Vase/Draught strengthens the theory as it explains something that needs explaining: Harry sees Ginny as a source of comfort. I think the comfort part is explained by the Draught. The Draught soothes and eases, it brings comfort - the word we later associate with Ginny. Harry was being chemically pushed to fancy Ginny That Night, whilst also eased and soothed in an independent action. I think that the two effects mingled so that not only does he relate Ginny with lust, but also with comfort. I think that in HBP we only see the word comfort twice: once relating to Sirius prior to That Night, and then at the end with Ginny. I think that's a meta-text clue to the dosing efforts switching the comfort-effect from Sirius to Ginny. We have the word 'comfort' rammed at us in relation to Ginny, we have to make sense of it. Slightly unrelated: The Draught of Peace is given a huge spotlit entrance - it must be a plot point - the reason it connected with me is that we are TOLD that when you mix it incorrectly it plunges the person into a deep sleep. It twigged with me because Harry's plunge into an ABRUPT sleep That Night is, I think, pretty much the only one we're given, and even if it isn't the only one, the connection is definitely there.
Joseph Paul reviewed Fourth
on Dec 07, 2005 05:48 pm
I think that Creamtea, with this essay, was able to address the weakest point of the previous three. How could Hermione do such a thing to Harry, dosing him with a love potion? This act seems to be beneath her, too OOC. By connecting the events in Order of the Phoenix to that in Half-Blood Prince, Creamtea was able to explain in a logical manner why Hermione would have done what the theory states that she did. This essay would even give partial justice (though of course dosing someone with love potion is still not right) to Hermione’s actions. We have to remember that even if Hermione was the second best fighter next to Harry in that DA sextet, she was probably the one closest to dying (by that spell of Antonin Dolohov, whatever that was). She had every incentive, backed up with awful experience, to prevent that from happening to her friends and herself as well. To cut things short, Creamtea was able to make Hermione’s (theorized) action of dosing Harry with a love potion more “in-character”. Creamtea makes us see Hermione (consistent to that in canon) as someone who wants to be in control, someone who ‘tweaks’ circumstances, highly intelligent but emotionally weak, but more importantly someone who would probably do ‘anything’ to protect her friends. Coupled with the fact that (JK Rowling herself states) Ginny is the ideal and worthy girl for Harry, the thought of dosing the latter with love potion is something in which the pros outweigh the cons.
I only find one thing problematic with the essay though. There was a line that states “I think badly/strongly brewed Draught of Peace was in the vase of flowers – brewed up by Molly probably as a ‘harmless’ sedative for Harry to comfort him – if Hermione had done it she would have brewed it correctly”. We would later find out in Book 6(Chapter: The Half-Blood Prince) that one of the scents Harry noticed in Amortentia was a flowery scent he might have smelled at the Burrow. The connection between the perfume of the flower in Fred and George’s room, Hermione’s scrutiny of Harry (both in the chapter ‘An Excess of Phlegm’) and to that scene in Professor Slughorn’s class when Harry smelled Amortentia is probably the most ‘concrete’ evidence of Creamtea’s Love Potion Theory. If that flowery scent at the burrow was actually Draught of Peace, then this evidence of the Love Potion Theory was contradicted, since the flowers should have had something to do with being a love potion. Hope Creamtea can enlighten me regarding this.
Besides that, it was again a brilliant essay (all four were). Sorry if my review was kind of long. Thanks!
Anise reviewed Fourth
on Dec 07, 2005 05:37 am
But thanks for your review, Hineoma! :) All thoughts are appreciated. (We're kind of like Paula and Simon on American Idol, you see, except that I'm sure Creamtea has better hair...) I agree that the main point is what Hermione herself perceived rather than what Harry was actually experiencing, but I also hope to see someone tackle the "happier than he could ever remember being" issue.
creamtea reviewed Fourth
on Dec 06, 2005 09:58 pm
Nope. You've missed the point. As I said in the essay it wasn't a case that Harry needed to be controlled BUT that Hermione THOUGHT he did and she didn't waste any time in finding out the truth at the start of HBP. As I say all the way through the essay, Harry is in control of his grief, we know that, but Hermione doesn't, but she's the one doing the potioning. Was Hermione in the broom-shed with Hary and Dumbledore? No. So did she know Harry had a lock on it? No. All she knows is that he went ape last year, and she doesn't want that twice. God, I really wish people would READ the essays rather than just looking at the words in them. Bored already. Out.
Hinoema reviewed Fourth
on Dec 06, 2005 04:35 pm
Interesting, but I see a big problem. Sirius died very shortly before the end of the school year. Harry grieved at teh lake briefly, then went back to PD almost immediately afterward. He does not see Hermione until the next year is about to start.
Importantly, in the third chapter, he is already shown ans being in control of his grief.
"But while I was at the Dursley's'..." interrrupted Harry, his voice growing stronger, "I realized I can't shut myself away or- or crack up. Sirius wouldn't have wanted that, would he?"
He goes n to explain that now he realizes that fighting for Sirius' memory is far more important than indulging himself in grief.
He already has his mind set that Sirius would not want him lost in grief and will better serve his memory by vowing "I'll make sure I take as many death eaters with me as I can, and Voldemort, too, if I can manage it."
All this happens before he meets Ron and Hermione. So, unless Hermione was 'controlling his moods' (an insult to both characters) at Privet Drive, it doesn't even remotely float. He had his attitude on that subject quite well defined before the year even began.
Lynnie reviewed Single
on Dec 06, 2005 04:22 pm
The evidence does point to Hermione spiking Harry with love potion, and you've got me convinced that it's entirely canon and possible.
However, I'm not quite sure this is the case... it may just be JKR's poor description of their relationship, and all references to the love potion spiking incidents are coincidents.
I've never been one to believe in coincidences, though.
Great theory, I loved it!
Jo reviewed Single
on Dec 06, 2005 03:06 pm
The only thing I see wrong with your theory is you say Ginny made a move on Harry. Harry kisses Ginny after the game, not the other way around! Ginny hugs Harry, but he is the one who kisses her.
Harry looked around; there was Ginny running towards him; she had a hard, blazing look in her face as she threw her arms around him. And without thinking, without planning it, without worrying about the fact that fifty people were watching, Harry kissed her.
Samantha reviewed Single
on Dec 04, 2005 11:17 am
Wow, I'm so impressed with the thought and research put into this essay. It was something I never considered, something that I didn't think I could accept, but you've managed to show it in a very plausible way and I feel that it very well could turn out to be true. I'm looking forward to reading the last book and seeing how true your theory holds.
hernandezstudio reviewed Single
on Dec 03, 2005 07:21 am
Someone linked me to this essay and I just had to comment. As I told her, this essay is scary because it's so very plausible! *g* I'm not quite sure how I missed so many of the odd things you point out here, but now they really jump out at me. And I *like* Harry/Ginny - I'm not a 'shipper' but I definitely like the two characters together. This was a great piece of theorizing. :o)
hmm reviewed Third
on Nov 24, 2005 08:08 pm
very good theory. researched well./
Lissy reviewed Single
on Sep 13, 2005 06:47 am
Generally, when you are doing any kind of magic that needs to target a specific individual, you need something personal of theirs, going by folklore. Often this personal idem is hair or nail clippings. In "Robin of Sherwood" magic, particularly Dark Magic, was all around, and people burned hair and nail clippings to ash before burying them to keep safe from having them used in magic against them. Having a lock of hair stolen could mean someone was in mortal peril, since Blood Magic was common. (Making Horcruxes is a form of Blood Magic, and the more powerful the Blood Magic the more blood need. I think you can't just kill someone, but you have to spill their blood. That would make it impossible for Harry to be a Horcrux because no actual blood was spilt. No time.) Potterverse doesn't seem to be that paranoid, so getting hair and nail clippings would be easy. Voldemort did use Harry's blood as part of the ritual to create himself a new body. Getting a few long red hairs to make someone fall in love with Ginny would not be hard for someone who shares a room with Ginny whenever she is staying at the Burrow.